Bystanders

In Great Britain, media stories of religious persecution are usually confined to cases of petty discrimination and to false propaganda. Few have the courage ofShabbaz Bhatti who refused to be a bystander.

Some organisations are crying in the wilderness hoping their voices will be heard while according to WikiIslam, more than 29 people are killed in religiously motivated attacks every single day at the hands of Muslims. While hypocrites protest, the Barnabasfund provides hope and aid for the persecuted church.

Don't be a bystander.

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Innocent

The verdict of 'Innocent' following the trial of Geert Wilders is welcome news not just for Christians alarmed by the threat posed to Christianity and other non-Muslim faiths by the spread of Islam but for free speech in general.

The public prosecutor said that in Holland it is forbidden to offend groups of people and to incite discrimination and hatred. It would be an odd world if only Muslims were allowed to say what they like and discriminate against other religions.

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Two Faced

I found the ‘Two faces’ in my previous post amusing but being ‘two faced’ is quite a different matter particularly when people describe themselves as Christians. The majority of people in Great Britain think of themselves as Anglicans especially at times of baptism, marriage and burial but few attend church regularly and many of those who do have forgotten the basis of their faith as expressed in the creed of the one Holy Catholic Apostolic Church.

Disingenuous from the start, supporters of the ordination of women have used stealth to achieve their aims. With the majority of people in the church happy to support women?S ministry there seemed little objection to women being made Deacons rather than Deaconesses especially in an age of political correctness. Not content with that, there soon developed a movement to ordain women to the priesthood using spurious claims of sexism and prejudice which pricked the consciences of the uninformed but fair minded. Hence they gathered support not only from those who, as nominal Christians, had never thought deeply about their faith, but more importantly from agnostics and atheists adding secular, political pressure to the soft under belly of the broad Anglican Church which had traditionally tolerated many kinds of churchmanship.

It wasn?T long before women Deacons were complaining that the only difference between them and Priests was that priests uttered a few words in the Prayer of Consecration and were allowed to administer the blessing. They insisted that their demands for ordination to the priesthood didn?T mean that they wanted to be bishops! Sufficient numbers believed them to gain a slender majority in a body not regarded in the wider church as competent to make such a decision but they entered the sacred ministry. The task of ?Converting? Parishes then followed encouraging those who couldn?T care less about theology and tradition to sing their chorus of ?Oh what a lovely person, she?S doing a splendid job? As though that were all there were to it. One could say the same of Albert Pierrepoint but it has no relevance.

Despite previous assertions they again raised their cries of discrimination because they were excluded from the Episcopate, notwithstanding the doubt about their admission to the priesthood in the first place. Now it seems they are to have what they always aimed for if the Church of England Synod accepts the recommendations of the Revision Committee set up to consider the necessary legislation. Those who oppose the measure on grounds of conscience are to be left with nothing despite being assured of an honoured place in their Church. A worthless ?Hobson?S choice? Code of practice is offered with expressions of hope and desire that orthodox opponents will not leave.

This is duplicity in the extreme. They show themselves to be two-faced ?Christians? Who read from the gospel according to WATCH. For Christ?S sake, Synod must reject the Revision Committee?S proposals and return to His teaching.

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A pox on them all

That was the message received from WATCH and their allies after yesterday?S Synod vote. Those in favour of the ordination of women succeeded in denying those who disagree with them an honoured place in their New Anglican church simply brushing them aside with false accusations of discrimination against women. Their spokesperson Ms Rees with her usual charm hailed the result as ?Wonderful news?. So wonderful that it will exclude people from their church simply for keeping the historic Apostolic faith.

Of course they argue that ?Traditionalists? Are not being excluded while they legislate to make their position untenable with a ludicrous code of practice designed to ensure that women bishops would not be seen as 'second class bishops'. Demonstrably they must be if that is their idea of pastoral care. It cannot be discrimination to oppose something that is regarded as illegal by the vast majority of Christians.

I have long believed and trusted that Archbishop Rowan would see us through this mess but he is so wedded to women?S rights that he is in danger of losing sight of the rest of his flock. Like Forward in Faith he uses the ways of gentleness to persuade but there is no persuading those who see only their own selfish ends. The time for gentleness is over. Strong action and leadership is essential. For the results of the meek look to Wales where Credo Cymru has become impotent in the face of those who seek only to satisfy the insatiable demands of a few frustrated women. Traditionalists have been left with nothing but a self-satisfied Bench bent on doing the latest trendy thing to keep themselves ?Relevant to society?. In the process they have become wholly irrelevant to 99% of the population.

Ironically the Eucharist reading yesterday was from 1 Corinthians 3. One verse in particular stood out, “There can be no other foundation beyond that which is already laid; I mean Jesus Christ himself.” Today, thanks to Fr Michael’s Let Nothing You Dismay blog, I read:

"Robert Key, the General Synod member and former Conservative MP, speaks exclusively to The Times about women bishops and why he believes strongly that any legislation that makes women 'less than' men or that attempts to guarantee the Church of England exemption from the 2010 Equality Act should not and probably will not get through Parliament's Ecclesiastical Committee, or the Lords and Commonsdanquot;

Is that what the church has come to? Unable to win the argument based on scripture and tradition they use untruths repeating them often enough so that people believe them. Jesus Christ, the foundation of our faith, did not shy away from righting injustice. Neither must we. Despite the cries of the Anglo Papists that the battle is done it must continue to ensure that faith prevails over feminism for those for whom the Anglican church is their natural home.

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Spot the Difference?

YES YES NO

?Woman and the Church? (WATCH) constantly claim discrimination but that deception is part of their feminist propaganda campaign.

Contrary to what supporters would have us believe, opponents of the ordination of women are not misogynists. Many devout women and men are against the innovation but that is not to discriminate. To non-believers it may appear to be the case but that is of the the supporters own making. Having inched their way through the process to allow women first to become Deacons then Priests, they now claim that is discriminatory not to allow women to progress to become bishops (as though they have an automatic right to that office). The process has shown it was a grave error to have given in to what can now be seen as deceitful claims from the outset.

Many women and men are dismayed that a woman would want a job such as an armed policewoman or soldier that may entail taking life rather than giving it but if that is their choice, so be it. The same for business and politics but religion is neither, though it has been treated as such by WATCH and is regarded as such by the vast majority of people who are non-believers, even atheists. That is the clever thing about the WATCH campaign; they push their secular views on people who have only secular values and understanding. These people judge accordingly and join in the cry of ?Discrimination!? We have now reached the stage where genuine believers are likely to be pushed out of their cradle church, the Church of England, if WATCH have anything to do with it.

While the Archbishops of Canterbury and York make a belated attempt to make provision for those who, in conscience, cannot accept the ordination of women, Sally Barnes of WATCH claims that is a way to ?Institutionalise this kind of discrimination? (see previous post). Balderdash! They just don?T get it. This is faith, not politics or business. In common with the wider Christian church the faithful few still believe that the traditional pattern of ministry Christ established through his Apostles is not something to be changed by committee merely to suit the times or the whims of converts to Anglicanism.

These women and their male supporters have demonstrated by their behaviour that the innovation is wrong. Those who did not support it were promised an honoured place in the church as loyal Anglicans but every move since has been to deny that and squeeze them out with constant accusations of discrimination. There is discrimination. It is against ?Traditionalists? Who refuse to bend the knee to liberalism in the church. They want ?Traditionalists? Out. Synod should see these people for what they are, deceivers unworthy of the office they claim is their right and vote accordingly.

Postscript

So the vote has been taken. The advice of the Archbishops of Canterbury and York and the wishes of the Houses of Bishops and Laity have been rejected by the House of Clergy. It's a woman's world in the church, a sort of Mothers Union with ritual.

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Women, Discrimination and The Church

I am indebted to an alert follower for this link to a broadcast on Christmas Day describing how one women battled against discrimination. A remarkable woman; God bless her.

"Priscilla, Queen of iPM listeners. Doctor, lawyer and theologian, Priscilla Noble-Mathews talks about her life, death and the hereafter. A homesick wartime evacuee, she's faced down sexism and ageism to work her way from the Bar, through the civil service to medicine. In what many would regard as her retirement, Priscilla has found new challenges working with a helicopter rescue team, risking her own life for others."

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Parliamentary interference in the Christian faith

According to The Telegraph "A group of influential MPs will tomorrow call for Parliament to intervene over the historic reform as fears grow that the Church will reject plans allowing female bishops." For 'intervene' read 'interfere'. I am not surprised to see Sir Peter Bottomley involved. He lost my respect some time ago but I am disappointed to read that Frank Field has tabled an early day motion, which could abolish the Church's current exemption from equality laws relating to gender discrimination and ultimately force it to consecrate women.

Why is it that MPs tread so softly on the faith of Muslims yet when it comes the Church of England some see the Vicar as someone doing just another job in the workplace? Men and women are equal in the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church but not interchangeable. Faith in Christ's example, the tradition of the church and the overwhelming opinion of Christians is not discrimination. That is something manufactured by Women and the Church (WATCH) to suit their cause. MPs should know better.

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Ass Bishop

What a shame we no longer have the Llandaffchester Chronicles to comment on the state of the Church in Wales, ruled as it is with the rusty iron hand of Bazzer, the boy from Neath. Unable to find anyone worthy in the Principality, His Darkness appointed David Wilbourne as Ass Bishop in his campaign to reduce the church to complete irrelevance to society.  Browsing through Church matters as she does, my wife happened upon a Church in Walesreport of the address given by the Ass Bishop at a recent induction. Still incandescent after reading it I asked her to give her reaction which follows.

"So now we have the Gospel according to David Wilbourne. The ordination of women will rid the world of homophobia, misogyny, brutalisation of women in all situations including those in war zones.

Those of us who cannot in all conscience succumb to this terbaru day form of feminism and political correctness are therefore responsible for all the horrors inflicted on women in the world.

What a complete and utter fool this man is!

Pope Benedict has put all in perspective with his customary thoughtfulness, prayerfulness and indeed holiness - all far removed from the Ass Bishop of Llandaff. The Church cannot change what Our Lord started. Read Light of the World David Wilbourne and learn true religion."

For years those who have remained faithful to Christ's example have been belittled and abused, not only by people who have invaded the Anglican church bending it to their will, but by the general population which has been infected by frequent false claims of misogyny and discrimination but this silly Ass has taken criticism of the faithful to an janggal level.

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The journey's end but for whom?

It began here

became adapted here

and here

and now here:

Canon Jeremy Pemberton (right) and his husband, April 2014                               Photo BBC

Is this the crunch and if so for whom?

Canon Jeremy Pemberton was refused a licence to work as a hospital chaplain because his 'marriage' was against the Church of England's teachings so he brought a discrimination case against his bishop giving the distinct impression that for some clerics sexual preference is more important than their priestly ministry. This is not equality, it is stupidity. A line needs to be drawn to avoid further haemorrhaging of Church members, something the ordination of women clearly failed to do.

Traditional Anglicanism in England and Wales has given way to self interest. Career choices, often second choices for middle-aged women, are represented as 'a calling' with what appears to be virtually automatic acceptance for female candidates while a young male candidate with traditional views about the ordination of women is rejected. That is discrimination.

After equality, 'love' has become the in-word but it is also used as a euphemism for lust. Advocates correctly claim that Christ commanded that we should love one another but that was not given as a license to pursue every conceivable twist of the word. If it had been, it would not have taken 2,000 years for people to understand the Bible.

Reaching a new low the House of Bishops of the  US Episcopal Church (TEC) wants to change the definition of marriage in the canons so that any reference to marriage as between a man and a woman is removed. - Read Anglican Curmudgeon's 'Bishops bless blasphemy'here and the Archbishop of Canterbury's reaction here.

What happens in TEC has been used as a green light by revisionists to push for changes in the Anglican Church in England and Wales while ignoring the views of the wider Church. See "Pride Festivals Draw Liberal Clergy on Parade" (here) and "John Sentamu calls for harmony as Church of England rows over sexuality escalate" (here).

Same sex marriage has become the sticking point for many. The vote in Ireland and more recently by the Supreme Court in the US has turned tolerance and understanding into an absurdity. The Tory Education Secretary, Nicky Morganwarns, "Children who hold homophobic views [are] more likely to become extremists". Ms Morgan who is also Minister for Women and Equalities must be unaware that opponents of same sex marriage are branded homophobic simply because they hold to the traditional view that marriage is the voluntary union for life of one man and one woman to the exclusion of all others.

Such views are not confined to the Conservative Party. Norman Lamb, a Liberal Democrat leadership contender hasargued that children’s TV shows like Peppa Pig should feature gay characters. In line with fashionable thinking he said  "Our broadcasters must realise that sexuality is not, fundamentally, about who you want to have sex with – but who you are, and who you love", an open sesame if ever there was one. As Melanie McDonagh put it in The Spectator, "If love now rules supreme, should incest and polygamy also be legalised"?

Labour leader hopefuls also talk ofequality confusing equality with sameness. Andy Burnham whose LGBT credentials had been questioned now says that "faith schools should be forced to teach about gay relationships", forgetting the transient nature ofchildhood feelings: When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. A childhood crush is just that. Attempts to spread the gay agenda on TV and in our schools should be resisted, not supported.

These false views of equality should be seen for what they are, stupidity giving licence to lust masquerading as love. Again in the US, Diana Butler Bass, "an independent scholar and expert on U.S. religion" penned a piece for the Washington Post in which she reflected on Katharine Jefferts Schori’s tenure as Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church. Regarded by many as a heretic there was nevertheless a glowing appreciation of the retiring Presiding Bishop which included a reference to innumerable indignities, "most noteworthy of which was a 2010 order by Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams that she not wear a mitre (the hat worn by Christian bishops to symbolize their spiritual authority) when preaching in an English cathedral".

Predictably the facts were twisted. The other side of this incident can be read here. Jefferts Schori's called, "their canons about the ministry of clergy from overseas" nonsense and said, "It is bizarre; it is beyond bizarre", much like her ministry.

Diana Butler Bass is a leading voice in Progressive Christianity in which Christ's new commandment to "love one another" has become an excuse for every excess, ignoring Christ's example "as I have loved you". That is, no women Apostles, no gay agenda, no same sex marriage.

One would have hoped, even expected, that when the Church is so obviously being used for political advantage to the detriment of the body of Christ, the successors to the Apostles would have something to say about it. To their shame, those who do are more often part of the problem supporting the latest fad rather than defending the faith.

Speaking at the discrimination case brought by Canon Pemberton against the Church, the Rt Rev Alan Wilson, Bishop of Buckingham, described the Church of England's teaching that marriage is only between a man and a woman as "a lousy definition". This created outrage drawing in the Archbishop of York. However, the Dean of York, the Very Rev Vivienne Faull, "defended York Minster's support for a section of the community that frequently experiences discrimination and hostility" as she played the well worn victim card.

The 'victim card' has become an absurdity. The new victims are the very people who are accused of victimisation while the majority of bishops seek popularity by reflecting current trends in society rather than follow Christ's message: "Everyone will hate you because you are committed to me".

Meanwhile I see that the Venerable Ruth Worsley is to be the next Bishop of Taunton in the Diocese of Bath and Wells. On hearing the news she said: "I am surprised and amused to be chosen as the next Bishop of Taunton as I grew up in a non-conformist church where women held no roles of leadership". Par for the course in New Anglicanism!

Postscript [11 July 2015]

"Church of England hosts away-days and retreats in luxury stately homes in bid to break deadlock over homosexuality....the events would collectively cost £360,000". Story here.

According to the Telegraph report, the Archbishop of Canterbury hopes that encouraging people to take part in frank, face-to-face discussions will help "break the deadlock over what has become one of the most toxic issues in the Church. A similar tactic led to breakthrough over the issue of women bishops which was finally agreed last year after decades of argument".

What is there to talk about? Homosexuality is already recognised as a fact of life. Civil partnerships have been welcomed as a significant advance in human rights but the current movement to put homosexual relationships on a par with the institution of Holy Matrimony designed for the procreation of children is a step too far. That the Church of England, along with the Church in Wales, even discusses the issue illustrates the extent to which Anglicanism has lost its way in this country. And at such a cost when children are going hungry!

Postscript [19 August, 2015]

From the 'Not Another Episcopal Church Blog':When to Leave a Church.

For 'Episcopal church' one could read Church in Wales.

Comments: important note

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This piece of papyrus

In 1938 Neville Chamberlain returned from Munich with his worthless piece of paper. In 2014 a fragment of papyrus is held up to suggest that, contrary to all the biblical evidence, Jesus had a wife. That must be a considerable disappointment for today's proponents of same-sex marriage but it is hardly earth shattering news that this fragment could "support the notion that Mary Magdalene was a major leader in the early Jesus movement!"

Onmoving up to an affluent parish in reward for doing her Archbishop's bidding, a 'major leader' in the current Jesus movement, the Archdeacon of Llandaff said: "It?S unbelievably important that discrimination against women in the Church is coming to an end. Anybody coming into the Church in Wales now is joining a Church that opens all its offices to women ? We can?T have people joining this Church, with the expectation that it will continue to discriminate ? That is absolutely unacceptable. It is shame on us that it has taken this long."

Real discrimination against women is defined here. There is no discrimination against women in the Church. That the role of women in the Church is different is NOT discrimination as Dr. Marianne Dorman explains here. The accusation is simply a tool used to convince the ignorant that some ambitious women are being denied their mendasar right. If what they claim were true, Christ Himself would be guilty of discrimination.

In between fiddling filling in their expenses in the "palace of sexminster" MPs are instead conspiring to discriminate against men to allow women bishops to be fast tracked into the Lords. Caroline Spelman, the Conservative MP for Meriden, said: "At present, many ordained women have reported feeling that they are still regarded as second best, which will persist unless we are successful in getting a mix of men and women bishops in the Upper House." Helen Goodman, Labour MP for Bishop Auckland, said: "To have places reserved solely for men brings into question the legitimacy of bishops in the Lords in a modern democracy. Since the seats are currently allocated on a seniority basis, changing this will require legislation, which the Labour Party will be happy to support."

Our Prime Minister knows a little bit about Christianity as he explained in his Easter message here. His 'acts of kindness' in fighting discrimination where none exists and in pushing through same-sex marriage without a mandate help us to see how much more Christ could have done if only he had the insight of the modern Jesus movement.

Postscript

Read here about "the state of modern scholarship" which puts “The Gospel of Jesus’s Wife” into context.

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Lowlights

Source: BBC videohere

Have you ever felt ashamed to be an Anglican? Those of us in the UK who feared that the influence of the US Episcopal Church would have dire consequences for Anglicanism have been proved correct but perhaps few realised the depths to which newcomers would sink to achieve their liberal objectives.

A report of the recent meeting of the Governing Body (GB) of the Church in Wales now appears in 'Highlights' here under the headlineMoral, Doctrinal and Ecumenical. What a laugh!

The piece on Women Bishops is a real eye-opener on the levels of deceit the bishops and their minions are prepared to sink to achieve the objectives of His Darkness. Here is an extract:

"The Bishops were present at the open forum, but did not participate. Members of GB were encouraged to share their views about what provision should be made in the Code of Practice, but not to return to general principles about women bishops that were made during the original debate last September. [my emphasis - Ed.]

The Venerable Peggy Jackson (Llandaff) reminded GB that it made a very important decision last September that there should be no ongoing discrimination in law on the grounds of gender, and that should be built into the process by which women should be made bishops. “From that date, we have all been members of a Church that no longer discriminates on grounds of gender. So the Church changed on that day.” “The Bishops should draw up a code such that all may have security in their accepted and valued place in the Church in Wales. It should not be interpreted as meeting the needs of a minority.” “Women must fully grow into their place of equality alongside men within the Church—that is a reassurance that the code should reflect.”

Archdeacon Peggy applied three principles: that the provisions of the code should apply equally to male or female bishops; that the code should honour the authority of the diocesan bishop in her or his diocese; that all the bishops should be willing as necessary and as needed to assist one another in meeting pastoral or sacramental needs in each others’ dioceses. “This means that the concept of a Provincial Assistant Bishop should be resisted, as this role would set up a two-tier episcope.”"

That the bishops would not participate was fair as was the guidance "not to return to general principles about women bishops". The bishops had no need to speak; their mouthpiece was allowed free rein. But why was the Archdeacon of Llandaff allowed to speak putting an entirely different slant on her original proposals? Effectively it was her motion that was carried at the previous GB, a motion which promised fair play but on a voluntary basis. That 'voluntary' was going to have any force can now be seen as a complete delusion bar a miracle that the Bench will do the honourable thing and disregard the latest contribution of the Venerable Peggy Jackson, a woman who does not understand the meaning of discrimination other than as a propaganda tool. They have good reason for doing so since she, like some of her fellow-travellers who tried to derail the process at the diocesan meetings by returning to general principles, is clearly determined not to let traditionalists have the sacramental and pastoral oversight they have pleaded for to maintain a link with the Holy Catholic Church which the Church in Wales is so busy cutting after reading Highlights.

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Newspeaking of love

George Orwell  statue unveiled outside BBC Broadcasting House                                                                                                                    Source: Telegraph

The First Minister of Scotland sounded utterly convinced that only her views could possibly be correct when offering her "unequivocal"apology to gay men convicted of sexual offences that are no longer illegal.

She said "the simple fact was that parliamentarians in Scotland had, over many decades, supported or at least accepted laws which "we now recognise to have been completely unjust... Hundreds of people in Scotland were liable to be convicted as criminals, simply for loving another adult."

If Ms Sturgeon feels secure enough to condemn previous law makers as in error, why did she twist the facts? She was correct only in that it took law makers in Scotland more than a decade to catch up with reforms to the law in England and Wales in 1976.

My understanding of the legislation to which she objected was that convictions were not for loving another adult but for buggery. The law was changed after the Wolfenden report recommended that "homosexual behaviour between consenting adults in private should no longer be a criminal offence".

The Civil Partnership Act 2004 granted civil partnerships rights and responsibilities in the United Kingdom very similar to civil marriage. A reform welcomed across the political spectrum but not good enough for activists who demand that marriage be redefined in the name of supposed equality.

The LGBT lobby has had considerable success with newspeak. Constant repetition of the words 'love' and 'equality' in relation to same sex marriage has provided a smokescreen to achieve an objective which undermines the basis of family live, the joining together of a man and a woman for the procreation of children without which civilisation as we know it would end.

But what about infertile couples? They claim, before advocating adoption by gay couples, the use of surrogates and more recently,womb transplants allowing men to have babies. There is little if any thought for the effects in later life on the children resulting from such unions.

Gay couples can live together in circumstances similar to civil marriage without fear of prosecution but acceptance has turned into demands. Now the tail wags the dog. Even Anglican bishops are content to demean the sanctity of marriage by agreeing to legitimise that which is contrary to Christian teaching.

The First Minister's misuse of the word love was a precursor to linking same sex marriage with equality, condemning supporters of traditional marriage as lacking integrity, wisdom, compassion and justice using words such as wrong, homophobia, hate, fear, discrimination, prejudice and bigotry, the implication being that opponents of same sex marriage are bigoted, prejudiced people who lack compassion and a sense of justice.

There is no justice in condemning people simply for having an opposing view. In years to come as the Church crumbles and society further disintegrates, another First Minister could be standing in Ms Sturgeon's place condemning others for supporting or at least accepting laws which "we now recognise" to have been completely stupid.

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Minority mania

British Army recruitment drive.  Source: Telegraph                               CREDIT: ARMY/PA WIRE

It has afflicted politics. It has afflicted the Church. It has afflicted schools. - the latest example here. Now it is afflicting the British Army. The advancement of minorities has reached absurd levels.

The latest government reshuffle boasted of fairness to women and fairness to ethnic minorities. With merit giving way to political correctness, some junior and middle ranking appointees must be wondering if, by upping the numbers of women in government and new ministers from ethnic minorities, their success had more to do with their colour or gender than merit. Selection should be based on merit not positive discrimination for political correctness.

Anglicanism is obsessed with sex and minorities while some schools seem set on confusing children even more than they need be when growing up by encouraging transgenderism which has resulted in alarming increases in gender dysphoria.  Toilet facilities which have stood the test of time are being changed to satisfy the sensitivities of a few transgender people and gender-neutral language has been introduced in place of gender specific pronouns to avoid making assumptions.

A new politically correct Army recruitment drive includes a series of films which ask "Can I be gay in the Army?" and "What if I get emotional in the Army?", in a bid to appeal to potential soldiers from different backgrounds. There is a clip explaining how space can be made available to allow Muslims to pray.

Retired Army officer Major General Tim Cross commented on the recruitment drive saying, "It happens to focus on the Muslim community; my point is we have Gurkhas, we have Sikhs, all faiths represented in the British Army, and what we don't want to be doing is isolating other people by focusing on these particular communities."

Colonel Richard Kemp, former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, said it was "neglecting the main class of people who are interested in joining" and will not solve the "recruiting crisis".

The head of the Army, General Sir Nick Carter, said that the rethink was forced by the fact that there are 25% fewer white 16 to 25-year-old males - a group that traditionally formed the force's recruitment base. He said: "Our traditional cohort would have been white, male, Caucasian 16 to 25-year-olds and there are not as many of those around as there once were, and our society is changing and I think it's entirely appropriate for us therefore to try and reach out to a much broader base to get the talent we need in order to stay in that combat effectiveness."

That sounds very much like today's Anglican Church. Ignore the main class and advance minorities regardless of the consequences. There is a wider issue here. One of normalisation, currently being used by progressives in the Church, familiarity brings acceptance.

Islam is a supremacist ideology. Anyone who watched 'House of Saud: A Family at War' on BBC2 last night should be left in no doubt of the seriousness of the problem of funding so-called 'extremists', often fighting each other for being perceived as the wrong sort of Muslim. They are not extremists. They are following their faith to the letter as they understand it. For many it is what they have been led to believe.

According to a UN study, "Young men who leave their homes to fight for terrorist groups in Syria mainly come from disadvantaged backgrounds, have low levels of education and 'lack any basic understanding of the true meaning of jihad or even the Islamic faith'."

Ironically the Quran cannot be verified and questioning the Quran is not allowed. In his articleWhat, Indeed, Is the Quran?(H/T Anglican Mainstream)the Rev James V. Achall, SJ writes:

"The Quran is a book that tells us of the life and mission of Muhammad, the prophet. The book specifically denies that Christ was the Son of God or that there is otherness in the Godhead. Yahweh and Allah is not the same God. In the Quran, Christianity as such is simply rejected as having no validity. It need not be totally suppressed if its members accept second-group citizenship and pay a tax. We may not like to hear this teaching, but no good Muslim, unless he is trying to deceive us, has any doubt that Allah is exactly as he is described in the Quran. The Quran is a book about man?S complete submission to Allah. It will gladly overturn the world to make this submission prevail. It will only fail if it is prevented."

By constantly embracing Islam's supremacist ideology it is being validated when it should be contested, explaining that it is Islam that has no validity and that failure to scrutinise the ideology condemns about a fifth of the world’s population to unnecessary servitude rather than God's mercy.

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Misogyny, repression and stigmatisation

Source: Church in Wales Diocesan press releases

One of the less important casualties of the severe weather was the launch of a new book under the category Gender Studies in Wales.

Due to be launched at that bastion of inclusiveness, St Asaph Cathedral, it claims to offer "significant and original insights into women, Welsh identity and religion":

"Women, Identity and Religion in Wales by Manon Ceridwen James, a Canon at the Cathedral, is the first comprehensive study of its kind from a present-day perspective. At the heart of the book are conversations with thirteen women whose lives and experiences reveal how women facing misogyny, repression and stigmatisation are able to respond with resilience and humour." [My emphasis - Ed.]

I have not read the book and at £24.99 for a paperback copy which, from the reviews, trots out the usual gender studies cliches, I have no intention of doing so. From the abstract of the author's University of Birmingham Ph.D. thesis:

"The thesis is structured as a theological ‘critical conversation’. Dialogue partners include Western feminist theologians and their claim that women find it difficult to assert an authentic self and also sociological and historical texts looking at religion, women and identity in Wales. Christianity has played a significant part in Welsh identity construction, particularly in creating a repressive self-image for Welsh women for political reasons."

Putting such claims in the context of my own grandmothers, mother, wife, mother-in-law, daughters to granddaughters, a period getting on for one and a half centuries, over half of which I have personal experience, nothing could be further from the truth. Quite the contrary which later generations are happy to confirm. It is all politics.

One reviewer described the book as a "valuable and challenging contribution to our understanding of womanhood". What she means is those women who have used religion to further their careers in a so-called equality campaign.

Equality of opportunity in the workplace is to be applauded but the church is not the workplace. Vicars are not employed by the church. They are 'employed by God'.

Blind to the reality that surrounds them, feminists are stuck in the past. They speak for themselves advancing their own cause regardless of the cost to others. If other women become casualties, falling by the wayside in the name of equality, hard luck.

As the Archdeacon of Llandaff candidly explained before she was imported from the Church of England to execute Barry Morgan's disastrous plans for the Church in Wales "new individuals with conscientious difficulties over women’s ministry will simply have to make personal decisions and individual choices, to find accommodation as best they can". With resilience and humour?

Many faithful women have been ousted from their church. I know from experience how it has hurt them to be abandoned but many more women suffer physical hurt and hardship through FGM, human trafficking and slavery. The inferior status of women according to different cultures in our midst is a scandal. To help them requires genuine service, not self advancement while supposedly fighting for social equality so real injustice continues.

Claiming misogyny, repression and stigmatisation is part of the feminist strategy. It has reached the highest levels in the church. We have witnessed two women bishops appointed in Wales followed by one in Scotland in addition to those in England and numerous female clerics repeating the same allegations of discrimination.

Mud sticks. There is plenty of it bringing the church into disrepute. The consequences are all too clear. Christianity in Great Britain is waning fast. When pressed the so-called abuse amounts to no more than a difference of opinion.

When secular values are applied to the church repression and discrimination are alleged. It is not misogyny to take a traditional, theological view on the ordination of women, in fact many more Christian women fervently believe that a woman's place is not at the altar. That is not repression. It is their deeply held faith.

Secularisation of Anglicanism has been a disaster resulting in decline, not growth, but still the alleged 'victims' peddle their untruths to gain advantage. That people outside the church are taken in is hardly surprising when clerics in the church complain it is so. The result is further opportunities to attack the church and our Christian values.

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Lamb to the slaughter

I was not alone in being shocked at the BBC's Countryfile coverage of the plight of sheep farmers last Sunday.

"Roast lamb is getting rarer" it was claimed, not because of a shortage but "because there is no money in it when no-one buys it." Exports had doubled over the last 30 years. The legs go to the supermarkets but the rest goes abroad, it was stated.

Perhaps Wales Online had the answer when theyreported:  "There are millions of sheep in Wales... so why is Welsh Lamb such a luxury ?" Grassland consultant Gareth Davies called for an investigation into the pricing process as the meat had come to be regarded as “a luxury” by consumers. He tweeted "In Tesco today and I didn't see any British lamb below £10 per kg. I sold lambs at £1.60. Would like to see breakdown of the other £8.40."

Rick Pendrous, editor at Food Manufacture magazine, said: “Welsh Lamb products are at a much higher premium than New Zealand lamb. From The Telegraph: "It has emerged a majority of New Zealand lamb sold in UK supermarkets comes from halal abattoirs in order to ensure it can be sold to both Muslim and non-Muslim nations. Tesco, Sainsbury's, Morrisons, Waitrose and Marks & Spencer have all confirmed selling the imported meat."

This had led to growing pressure on supermarkets and restaurants to inform consumers how animals in their meat products are killed after it emerged some were selling halal meat without clear labelling.

Reacting to Countryfile 'promoting halal slaughter' the Expressreported anger over the BBC's coverage: "The BBC has come under fire for broadcasting a segment on Halal meat on Sunday night’s Countryfile with viewers accusing the Corporation of hitting a “new low” and “justifying vile Halal slaughter practices on our soil”. This is a video clip from the programme

Discussing the practice the Imam featured in the video said: “There are certain practices where you want to fulfil a commandment of God and you’re basically invoking God’s name upon that. You are making the sacrifice in the name of God and now it’s made Halal. Halal means permissible and it’s been made permissible by God for you.”

He is not the loving God recognised by Christians. When the Apostle Peter said “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean, "The voice spoke to him a second time: 'Do not call anything impure' that God has made clean".

But the promotion of Islam goes beyond ritual slaughter of lamb. There have been many reports of our inability to confront the most dangerous aspects of Islam. ‘Rebel Priest’, Rev Jules Gomes graphically illustrated the problem when he wrote "Our most vulnerable girls pay sorely for our surrender to the Islamists".

The criminals, he says are often referenced as “Asians” rather than as “Muslims”. Although the predators hail from many ethnicities, many happen to be Pakistani.

"Rape in Pakistan is ‘often institutionalised and has the tacit and at times the explicit approval of the state.’ A Human Rights Watch study reports a rape every two hours and a gang rape every eight hours. What is particularly significant is the high percentage of Christian, Hindu, Sikh and other women from minorities raped by Muslim men in Pakistan. The British incidents reflect a perilous import from Pakistan."

God's name is invoked by Muslims in their cry Allahu Akbar (God is greater) when they slaughter the lamb and innocent victims of their intolerant ideology. Writing under the headline Danger, discrimination and dhimmitude the Barnabas Fund recently reported:

"Pakistan’s Christians are a suffering, vulnerable minority. They face violence at the hands of Islamist terrorists, discrimination in work and at school, and live with the ever-present threat of “blasphemy” allegations, which have led to Christian communities being ransacked by Muslim mobs. Authorities often turn a blind eye and are sometimes even complicit in crimes against Christians, including the abduction and forced marriage of women and girls.

There are too many 'blind eyes' turned in Great Britain but that the BBC should use licence payers' money to promote such an ideology is truly outrageous.

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Conform not to the world!

Here we go again. From Christian Today 'Bishop and senior clergyman join calls for Church of England to lose equalities exemptions':

"The Church of England should lose its protections under the Equalities Act that allow it to discriminate against people on the basis of their sexuality, a bishop and senior clergyman have said today. Paul Bayes, the bishop of Liverpool, and David Ison, the dean of St Paul's Cathedral, both backed Jeremy Pemberton, a gay priest who was blocked from being a hospital chaplain after marrying his partner. They are supporting the Ozanne Foundation, a charity launched on Monday campaigning against discrimination within religious institutions."

The episcopal rot which is leading to the demise of the US Episcopal Church spread rapidly to our shores as liberal clerics and laypersons saw an opportunity to use the church to legitimise their behaviour.

It has been reported that the 'Episcopal Church Prepares to Tighten Screws on Traditional Marriage Proponents', quoting Fr. Richard John Neuhaus’ law: “Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy will sooner or later be proscribed.”

In supporting the Ozanne Foundation senior clergymen are simply conforming to the world without discernment. The Foundation jargon is 'We Believe in Just Love For All!' as if others do not. Failure to conform results in accusations of homophobia and more.

What people do in private is between them and God. It is not for others to judge but we have a right to stand firm in defence of holy matrimony which is between a man and a woman, to the exclusion of all others and for life.

Ozanne herself came out as gay to her friends and family. She then entered into a long term relationship with another woman, although they separated after five years together. Fidelity, it appears, is not included in 'Just Love For All'.

Who cares? Business manager bishops and senior clergy don't, leading others astray when they should be transformed.

David Ison, dean of St Paul's Cathedral told Christian Today: 'We've got to come to terms with the reality of the world we're in and we're not doing that. That is why we're becoming disconnected from society. The church is becoming disconnected from society because it has nothing different to offer.

Bishop Bayes told Christian Today, "I hope for a future whereby people like Jeremy [Pemberton] can feel that their ministry can be exercised and that they can love the person they love freely".  Pemberton is a divorced father of five.

The General Synod of the Scottish Episcopal Church has decided to permit same-sex marriage. The Church in Wales bench of bishops can hardly contain their eagerness despite the absence of a mandate.

Gone are the days when Anglican bishops acted like bishops.

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Something fishy?

The assembled throng outside the West Door of St Davids Cathedral, Pembrokeshire                                  Source: Twitter @DavidGrundy

As far West from the great West Door as they could manage without joining the rest of the tiddlers in River Alun, the Canon Residentiary at St Davids Cathedral appears to have been delegated to lead the applause in appreciation of Archbishop Barry Morgan's 'historic' announcement that the bishop elect of St Davids is the first woman to be made bishop in Wales, Canon Joanna Penberthy.

A video of this damp squib of an occasion can be seen on Twitter and on the Anglican Communion News Service (ACNS) website.  While small in size the number of people gathered is the same size as many dwindling congregations in the Church in Wales but clearly a great embarrassment to the Archbishop as the video link in the Press Release has been edited so that only the applause is heard after the Dr Morgan gives the nod.

Most of the news coverage followed the same theme: First woman bishop Joanna Penberthy 'faced prejudice', a strategy used to stain orthodox views as being negative. This theme is often used to condemn anyone who disagrees with the latest liberal fashion and was much used by the Movement for the Ordination of Women (MOW) which has been superseded by Women and the Church  (WATCH), a feminist organisation currently insisting that God should to be referred to as female. In a similar vein, opponents of gay marriage are condemned as homophobic while anyone searching for the truth about Islam's attitude to non-Muslims is regarded as Islamophobic.

After the announcement of her election Canon Penberthy commented: "As someone who in the early years was at the receiving end of prejudice and discrimination, I have absolutely no intention of dishing that out so I think it's important that everybody feels free to be honest about their opinions and about their misgivings." That is a welcome change from the view of the bench of bishops as currently constituted and a welcome change of heart from her Newnham days when as a young evangelical student she was more inclined to the view that Anglo Catholics should leave the Church of England because they were not real Anglicans.

When interviewed a BBC Reporter put the question to Canon Penberthy,Ordaining women is still controversial to some people. How do you reach out to those who are not happy with the idea? Her reply was far more encouraging than the Archbishop's 'over my dead body' policy. She said:

"I was very encouraged to be on a conference recently organised by Credo Cymru, which is an organisation for people who don?T wish to receive the sacramental ministry of women. It was a very positive gathering of how we can learn to live together in a world where women are priests and at that point where women might take episcopal ministry. It was about how do we live together in honesty, kindness and out of the values of that one shared gospel."

Following theLiving with Diversity conference it was refreshing to hear from the bishop elect that everyone should "feel free to be honest". Since Bishop David Thomas retired there has been no place in the Church in Wales for people who remain unable to recognise the sacramental ministry of women as bishops and priests on grounds of theological conviction and conscience although officially remaining "within the spectrum of teaching and tradition within the Anglican Communion". Credo Cymru's statement can be readhere.

With such lavish praise heaped upon her by the Archbishop and the bishop of Swansea and Brecon one wonders why Canon Penberthy had not previously joined the ranks of senior clergy as Dean or Archdeacon. Is it merely a coincidence that the bishop elect happens to be the right age as specified by the former bishop, Wyn Evans, to complete the work he started as Dean? Some fishy business on the Alun!

Fishy or not, this episode has all the appearance of a jigsaw puzzle coming into place except for one piece which just does not fit but he will be retiring soon when all should be much clearer, hopefully putting an end to prejudice and discrimination in the Church in Wales.

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First misogynistic then homophobic, now potential killers! No wonder people are leaving the Church in droves

♫Somewhere, over therainbow, skies are blue

 And the dreams that you dare to dream really do come true....♫

From some recent reports as Synod prepares for the LGBTbattle:

 "The Church is driving homosexual people to suicide because of its negative and discriminatory attitude towards same-sex relationships, a major Christian charity has concluded" (here).

"Church of England 'not listening to gay Christians', say retired bishops". "In an open letter published online, 14 leading retired bishops wrote that a recent report on same-sex marriage failed to include the ?Authentic voice? Of the LGBT community and was instead focused on talking about them rather than to them" (here).

"The Bible doesn?T have anything to say about lesbians but they need to be included in order to make statements about the group who really disturb the men. These are the men, who are men, but do not behave like men when it comes to sex and they need to stop itdanquot; (here).

The onslaught* is gaining momentum. Lies, damned lies and statistics to 'prove' that the House of Bishops has it wrong by defending traditional marriage. Previously accused of homophobia, now defenders of the Christian faith are charged with driving homosexuals to suicide  because of its negative and discriminatory attitude towards same-sex relationships.

This charge has been shot down on the Psephizo blog which refers to the work of Anglican priest and statistician, the Rev Peter Ould:

What the authors have demonstrated here is that their research shows that, contrary to the claims that Oasis make with no evidence to support them, LGB people do not have worse mental health outcomes when in ?Non-affirming? Church environments and indeed there is some evidence to suggest that attending a conservative church actually improves mental health for LGB people, even when they have significant internalized homophobia.

The 14 retired bishops protest too much. After three years of "shared conversations" with the LGB community and other Christians they write that the bishops' report on same-sex marriage published last month failed to include the ?Authentic voice? Of the LGB community. It was, they complain, focused on talking about them rather than to them. Some of the 14 are readily identifiable as homosexuals but how many of the others are waiting to come out if they have the stamp of approval of the Church?

Their conclusion appears to be that LGB people have been discriminated against because the official report did not come out in favour of gay marriage. A common complaint used by the feminist movement, if you are not for them you are prejudiced and discriminate against them.

As for WATCH perhaps I should let 'The Chair’s thoughts' speak for themselves but I would have thought the statement "The Bible doesn’t have anything to say about lesbians" would be a great comfort to WATCH wimmin. After all, a similar spurious argument helped to secure the ordination of women priests. It will be interesting to see how many more variants of that argument will eventually be employed to create even more diversity in the  Church taking her ever further from her spiritual roots even if it "risks further alienating the church from wider society" as the Guardian report put it.

Learning from the feminist movement, Church of England gay activists such as Changing Attitude are taking the Church down the same path as WATCH did with the same disasterous results. Nothing matters but their own selfish desires. Hence last year'sheadline: Gay Marriage Support From Christians In The Church Of England Is Now Outstripping Opposition, New Poll Reveals. If the LGBT activists are as successful as the feminists, the Church be will full of lesbians, gays and the gullible.

Referring to "Mr Welbydanquot;, the Guardian opines in its Editorial that "It is generally accepted that about one in 10 of the Anglican clergy are LGBT (three times the proportion of non-white clergy...Hence anguished protests by 14 retired bishops at the weekend)." It is understandable that a newspaper would offer a secular view, but for the Church? Is there nothing that is sacred or spiritual?

So, the Church of England is set for "a renewed clash" this week when Synod votes on a key report from the Bishops on the "divisive question" of gay marriage and same sex relationships mired in gay propaganda and false information. No wonder people areleaving the church in droves.

Feminizing the Anglican Church has been damaging enough, queering the Church for 1.7% of the UK population or 10% of the clergy based on figures in the Guardian  would be a disaster even if it were not contrary to scripture .

Postscript

* The onslaught gains more momentum. Martin Bashir, BBC Religious Affairs Correspondent, writes:

'Fireworks and faith at general synod'

As members arrive on Wednesday morning, they'll be greeted by a vigil organised by the Lesbian and Gay Christian Movement and Changing Attitude with the support of the Peter Tatchell Foundation and Out and Proud African LGBTI.

This is the well tried strategy:

• Exploit the “victim” status;
• Use the sympathetic media;
• Confuse and neutralize the churches;
• Slander and stereotype [traditionalist] Christians;
• Bait and switch (hide their true nature); and
• Intimidation.

See alsoAnglican Mainstream: "Manipulative, domineering revisionists must be opposed, not appeased".

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The Victim

Women in the Church were victims, allegedly. Gays, lesbians and transgenders in the Church are victims, allegedly.

The true Victim was left hanging on the Cross. His words have been twisted to justify sectional interests to the detriment of the Church. The latest episode is witnessed by the LGBT campaign to have the high profile gay cleric Jeffrey John elected bishop of Llandaff.

Dr John says the bench of bishops is guilty of homophobia. This is the bench which wrote:

“Dear brothers and sisters in Christ,

We recognise that you have often been persecuted and ostracized by the Church for your sexuality, that you have been mistreated by the Church, and forced into secrecy and dissimulation by the attitudes of prejudice which you have faced.  We deplore such hostility, and welcome and affirm the words of the Primates that condemn homophobic prejudice and violence.  We too commit ourselves to offering you the same loving service and pastoral care to which all humanity is entitled, and we commit ourselves to acting to provide a safe space within the Church and within our communities in which you can be honest and open, respected and affirmed."

Jeffrey John claims in an open letter to the Bishop of Swansea and Brecon that his situation is exactly similar to that of the Bishop of Grantham who is also in a same sex relationship. It may be insofar as civil partnerships are concerned but I have found no record of Bishop Chamberlain supporting the Out4Marriage campaign, twisting the Bible to support his stance.

Dr John also suggests that same sex couples are no different to infertile couples, or couples who are beyond the age of childbearing. He is badly mistaken. Addressing gay people directly in his Out4Marriage video Dr John claims that "the official church doesn't speak with integrity... so frankly doesn't deserve to be listened to". That does not bode well for the mission of the Church or for bench collegiality. It is a  pick and mix form of Christianity which leads John to claim that "God is Out4Marriage too"!

In his letter to the bishop of Swansea and Brecon who is the Church in Wales' most senior bishop, Dr John said he had been told by "a bishop present at the meeting of the electoral college" that “a number of homophobic remarks were made and were left unchecked and unreprimanded by the chair”. [My emphasis - Ed.]

For members of the Electoral College to leak information is a serious breach of confidence but for a bishop? He or she should seriously consider his/her position.

Regular churchgoers are dying out, literally and metaphorically. Those who have not been pressured into leaving and battle-on are fed up with gays and feminists claiming to be badly treated when the Church clearly has so many women clergy and gay people in their midst.

In England Archbishop Justin Welby appears to have sold out to Women and the Church (WATCH) despite their shameless campaign against Bishop Philip North because he is an orthodox Anglican. Read the history of this sorry saga here.

In Wales Archbishop Barry Morgan led the bishops into battle against Church members promoting same sex marriage. At the same time he was desperately engineering the election of the first woman bishop in Wales before he retired. His candidate also complained of discrimination. On investigation it proved to be nothing of the sort. One stitch-up is one too many.

I hope that the Bench has at last come to its senses. People need to hear about Christ crucified not false claims of victimhood.

Postscript [21.03.2017]

Unsurprisingly given the gay men's chorus which is singing ever louder to Jeffrey John's tune, the LGB pressure class OneBodyOneFaith this morning published an open letter (here) expressing their "concerns" about the way the process to appoint a bishop for the See of Llandaff has been handled. One of the signatories is the Rev Jeremy Pemberton, Chair for the Board of Trustee. It was he who thumbed his nose to the Church of England over the gay marriage issue.

OBOF have only Jeffrey John's word for what took place. That is second hand. There is no context, merely accusation. "The reported unanimity of the Llandaff electors is a strong indication of what they wish to happen" they write. There are two points here. It was common knowledge that many in Llandaff were desperate to avoid a woman bishop. Their best hope of avoiding that eventuality was to support Jeffrey John. Also, given the strong gay presence in Llandaff, the impression given is that many if not all form part of the chorus demanding that Jeffery John should be the bishop-elect.

As we approach Passiontide  the baying crowd becomes louder. There are echoes of "Give us Barabbas". The crowd had it wrong. So does OBOF and the media. Pray that the Bench withstands the media onslaught.

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'The Hour' has come

?The Hour? Previewed here was broadcast last night on 16 April, not 14 April as stated in the diocesan Press Release.

Joanna Penberthy?S contribution was worse than I feared, aligning the church with a political movement rather than the Kingdom of God. She was unbalanced, dishonest in her claims and blatantly sexist. I doubt that she brought anyone to Christ.

No wonder Barry Morgan thought she was the best person to be a bishop in the Church in Wales.

There was no mention of the genuine theological problems experienced by the majority of Christians, including women, who are unable to accept the validity of the ordination of women. Just a one-sided bleat about perceived injustice.

Not recognising the validity of her orders may be "water off a duck's backdanquot; for the bishop but it is a deluge that has ruined the spiritual lives of the male priests she referred to as unable to accept her sacramental ministry and many more lay people who are unable to accept a minority innovation that benefits the few at the expense of many.

Readers who are able to access the BBC?S iPlayer can watch the programme. It was about women ? ?A hundred years since some of us got the vote, are women still discriminated against in today?S Wales or has Feminism gone too far??

After discussing politics the presenter moved to “an even older institution, the church” (position 25.50). There was a short film designed to illustrate the so-called prejudice experienced  by the woman who 'will go down in history as Wales’ first ever women bishop. “It’s not about being a victim”, Penberthy asserted, "if you can be prejudiced in the soft institution of the church, what does that say about your attitude to women?”

That is why, she said, in the first interview after her consecration she was talking about the fact that two women a week are killed by their partners. Until that stops "we have a job on our handsdanquot;. It was not clear if that comes before or after her campaign to welcome LGBT people despite their disproportionate presence in the church.

The former Ass Bishop of Llandaff claimed that ‘the ordination of women would rid the world of homophobia, misogyny, brutalisation of women in all situations including those in war zones’. The Church in Wales now has women priests and bishops but the claims continue with the same false accusations of  homophobia and misogyny.

Penberthy emphasised the point that she chose to pursue the brutalisation of women theme in her first interview after her enthronement rather than the core Christian message, the proclamation of the coming of the kingdom of God.

Later in the  discussion the presenter returned  to the bishop to ask about the future. What could be changed for the better? “Women need to be valued” was the bishop’s response as though women are not valued already. She was also given the last word on 'the most important thing' she had heard in the debate. Once again it was that two women a week are killed by their partners. Until "we get passed that and women are safe in their own homes then we haven’t really made any progress", she said.

The 'soft institution of the church' to use Penberthy's words has been used by feminists to advance their own cause at the expense of the church, trampling on the faithful in the process. An unsigned (therefore unpublished) comment on another thread suggested the we misogynists should "look beyond your own ecclesiastical communities and see how women continue to be exploited and mistreated".

How mistreating and exploiting the church for political ends is supposed to make a difference is not explained. It would help if the infiltrators did something at the sharp end rather than seek a comfortable living while destroying the church which had enriched the lives of many more women then those who claim to be discriminated against.

The hour has come. Bishops have responsibilities as bridge builders but their attitude is take it or leave. Many have left the church enabling Penberthy to claim that only a few do not accept her sacramental role.

Feminism has gone too far. Often the most vehement opposition to the ordination of women comes from women but that is not mentioned. There is discrimination in the church. It is most obvious at the top. It must stop.

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